faith, Jesus, life, Light

Nothing Concrete

road 1

My daughter told me about a vile post written by an evil pastor, or perhaps its an evil post written by a vile pastor.  I’m not sure but I’m guessing he is one of those men about whom Jude warned the church.

The post to which I am referring – entitled “Where Do Dead Babies Go?” – asserts that all babies go to hell.  The pastor also puked a post entitled “Ten Women Christian Men Shouldn’t Marry,” but we’ll save that for another day.

I figured I should actually read the post before writing about it, so I did.  There is a lot to refute.  Too much.  Therefore, rather than speak to it point by point, I will just sum it up by saying that his logic and his understanding are faulty and flawed.  Flawed, flawed, flawed.  And if he is not evil, then he is misguided and sorely in need of a renewed mind.

So, where do babies go when they die?  The Bible does not say.

But, knowing God, my guess is that there is not a blanket answer.  God knows our hearts.

Psalm 58 says, “Even from birth the wicked go astray; from the womb they are wayward, spreading lies.”

The pastor used this verse to “prove” that we are all wicked from birth.  But it does not say that.  It says the wicked are born that way.  It doesn’t say we are all born that way.

So if the wicked are wicked from birth, then God’s all-knowing brain knows which babies are wicked and which are not.  He knows which ones would yield to Him, if given longer to live, and which ones would stubbornly refuse Him.  And I think He judges accordingly.

Jesus told this story recorded in Luke 16:

“There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

“The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

“But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’

“He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’

“Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’

“‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’

“He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’”

God knew that a little more time, a little more knowledge and a little more warning would not make a lick of difference.

The pastor wrote:

Now, Romans 10:9 clearly states, “Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”  Unfortunately, babies can do neither (to my knowledge).  Which sorrowfully leads me, therefore, to response #2 as perhaps the only biblically tenable response: all babies who die in infancy go to hell.

Shaking my head.

Two words (actually a name and a word):  Balaam’s  Donkey.  If God can make a donkey talk, then He can make a baby talk.

And if rocks can cry out, who is to say a baby’s heart cannot believe?

God to Jeremiah:

“Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
before you were born I set you apart;
I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”

At the risk of being thought a bit of a nut, I have a vague recollection of a conversation I had with God when I was in the womb.  And why not?  If He can talk to me now, He could talk to me then.

In the book/movie, “Heaven is for Real” – based on one family’s testimony – the little boy who went to heaven told his dad that no one is old in heaven.  I started wondering why the boy’s grandpa was a young man in heaven and not say a boy, etc.  And I landed on a theory based on nothing concrete:  What if, instead of remaining the age we were when we died, we remain the age we were when we were born again?  In which case I will be eternally 23.

The only glitch in my theory (the only glitch I can think of at the moment) is that when the little boy in the movie met his miscarried sister she was a child and not a fetus.  My best explanation – actually my only explanation – is that God knows everything – past, present and future.  Perhaps in His omniscience, He knew at which age she would have believed in Him, had she lived.  Life was His plan for her and He knew how that plan would have played out.

So here’s where I stand today:  Do all babies go to heaven?  Probably not.  Do all babies go to hell?  Definitely not.  Does God, who knows every heart, judge according to that intimate knowledge?  That’s what I’m thinking.

I may have a different take on all this when my sinus infection is gone and my head is less fuzzy, but these are my thoughts today.

What do you think?

© The Reluctant Baptist, 2015

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17 thoughts on “Nothing Concrete

  1. I think that God is compassionate and gracious, abounding in love. A loving gracious Father would not send all babies to hell. I agree with your logic.

    I like the idea of us remaining the age we were when we were born again! No scriptural proof, but a fun idea to consider.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. David knew his dead child would be in heaven, that he would go to him eventually. (Samuel 12:23) And that was important enough to make the pages of the Bible. I believe it is there in part to give comfort to parents of children who die.
    And what about the age of accountability?

    Liked by 2 people

    • Did God ever mention an age of accountability? If so I missed it. I think it is a man made explanation which doesn’t take God’s knowledge of each of us individually into account.

      i was glad to see that someone pointed out that second Samuel passage in the post’s comment section.

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  3. Matthew 19:14 – But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.
    Matthew 18:3 – And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
    James 4:17 So whoever KNOWS the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin. (caps are mine)

    Deuteronomy 1:39 “And as for your little ones, who you said would become a prey, and your children, who TODAY have no KNOWLEDGE of good or evil, they shall go in there. And to them I will give it, and they shall possess it.”

    Hoping….

    Liked by 2 people

    • Thanks for weighing in Jimmie. I, too, am “hoping…” but I’m just not sure we can extrapolate David’s expectation of seeing his son again to all babies. Perhaps while in anguished prayer God gave him the assurance that he would see his son again or perhaps he was just hoping. We will know when we get there and there will be no disappointment. Everything will be right and glorious.

      Liked by 1 person

  4. Romans 5:13 tells us that sin is not imputed where there is no law. That is, where there is no knowledge or understanding of the law. I believe that babies too young to understand sin and salvation are in heaven with the loving Father Who made them. I also believe that those who are profoundly retarded, therefore having no knowledge of sin, will be in heaven. As for the “age of accountabiity,” we really don’t know when that is–which is why it is so important for us to talk about Jesus to our children before they can understand, and to continue to reinforce what we’ve taught them after they DO understand and have accepted Him as their own Savior.

    My God is not a God Who dumps babies who have died into eternal hell. I don’t know who this so-called pastor is, but I hope he never “ministers” to anyone who has had a miscarriage or whose very young child has died. In that person’s place, I think I would just want to die rather than think of my infant suffering in hell for all eternity. Good grief.

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    • Thank you Linda, I agree. To him I think Jesus would say, “Woe to you, teacher of the law, you hypocrite! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. You yourself do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.”

      May the Holy Spirit bring him to a saving and loving knowledge of Jesus.

      Liked by 1 person

  5. 100000lightyears says:

    Oh my, this is such a wretched post (his not yours). I feel for his congregation I really do, those poor, poor people.

    I had a miscarriage a number of years of ago, damn near broke my heart. It put me off having any more children (so putting me in the childbirth avoider category of the 10 Women Christian Men Shouldn’t Marry list). David’s and Bathsheba’s story, of the baby who died before his circumcision but David is sure he will see in heaven, is/was a great comfort to me. The babies of believers are not automatically doomed for hell. And this was a baby born through an adulterous, murderous affair let’s not forget.

    Like I said in your post for today, not a lot of grace on display here. Very saddening.

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    • I did not read his “about” page so I don’t know anything about him other than what he wrote in those two posts, but I hope he isn’t a real pastor with a real congregation. If he is, I feel for them too. May the Holy Spirit guide them to much greener, healthier pastures.

      Like

  6. I have no idea where dead babies go, but if it were a just and loving God, he’d know exactly where they’d go and it will be a fitting place. In my human mind it would definitely not be hell – our sense of morality, religiously backed or not, wouldn’t really allow that terrible conclusion.

    Had a read through NYCpastor’s post and while I think he’s trying very hard to logically come to a biblically based conclusion, with references and all, he’s blinded. Be it arrogance or utter misguidance I don’t know, but I hope he’s not spreading these evil thoughts about women, life and death, heaven and hell to any community.

    Liked by 1 person

  7. Miss Quoted says:

    Personally, I believe that all children are born without sin, and that there is an age of accountability. I think that the age of accountability is different for each of us. When babies die, they must go back into the arms of a loving heavenly father. As you said, God knows our hearts. I also believe in repentance.

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