Just a quick observation, because it’s time:
Have you noticed that whenever a Mark Driscoll wannabe promulgates misogynistic nonsense he quotes only Paul?
And when a (presumably) well-intentioned pastor preaches on the leadership of men, he too exclusively quotes Paul.
Blogging pastors who warn Christian men against marrying 10 types of women also quote Paul.
And none of them quote Jesus.
Because Jesus didn’t say the stuff Paul said.
Some hard core Pharisees will say that Paul saying it is as good as Jesus saying it. I know because hard core Pharisees have argued that to me. But as of yet none of them have told me in a clear, non-convoluted way when Jesus gave Paul that kind of infallible authority. When He put Paul on par with the Holy Spirit, the Counselor whom He sent to guide us into all truth.
I can show them exactly when He warned us to beware the yeast of the Pharisees.
Paul was well-steeped in the teachings of the Pharisees. Well-steeped stains are tough to remove, in fact they never come entirely clean. Old habits die hard. And so it was with Paul.
Photo credit: http://theressomethingaboutasunrise.tumblr.com
Alas, some of the teachings of the Talmud – even the Babylonian Talmud – seeped, steeped and brewed into Paul’s teachings to the church. And the Talmud, as I hope you know, is not Scripture.
Yep, there I went again.
Someone had to say it.
If you’re new to this blog and you want the full gripefest, you can read Picking Your Paul, Chasing Kings, Passionate About Paul?, Winning the War on Women, Trickle Down Jesus, Go Anne, Uh oh!, You Have Got to Be Kidding Me.
Those ought to hold you for awhile…
© 2015, The Reluctant Baptist
Are you advocating getting rid of Paul’s epistles?
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No, I don’t advocate getting rid of them. There is some really good and true stuff in them. I think what I might be advocating is reading, studying and teaching them with a different mindset than the one we have been using as a church. The more I study them, the more I see them as para-Scripture – I think they might be to the New Testament what the Talmud was to the Old Testament: The Rabbis’ interpretation of Scripture, but not Scripture itself.
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Interesting….
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The Apostle Paul was no mysogonist. He loved the women who worked with him in establishing churches, and greeted them by name in his epistles. He accepted teaching from Priscilla and her husband, Aquila, as he worked with them making tents.
I believe that “all scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable. . .” If we have to start figuring out what is inspired and what is just Talmudic tradition, we’re never going to put out those fires. In each passage Paul wrote concerning women, it is helpful to go back and study the setting, the culture, and especially the language. I believe Paul was married at one time, since he was a member of the San Hedrin. Only married men could achieve that status. There is too much in his writings and dealing with women for me to believe that he disliked the fair sex just because they weren’t men.
Have Paul’s teachings been used to put women down? Yes, sure. Of course. But that’s not Paul’s fault, nor is it God’s. I don’t think Paul would be pleased.
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Hi Linda, thanks for weighing in. I agree with your first and third paragraphs completely.
I believe the Scripture you quoted in your second paragraph definitely applies to the Law and the Prophets because Jesus often referred to them as Scripture. Since Jesus told us that all of His words were God-breathed, we can surmise that it applies to the Gospels as well. However, Paul’s letters were not part of Scripture when he penned those words to Timothy, therefore, I doubt he was referring to them.
“If we have to start figuring out what is inspired and what is just Talmudic tradition, we’re never going to put out those fires.”
But what if God wants us to? A group of men had to “figure out” what and wasn’t inspired long ago. They didn’t all agree. What if they made some mistakes that God wants us to correct? Are we willing?
Paul’s actions speak louder than his words – which I think are mistranslated when it comes to women. I don’t think he would be pleased either. And if I were him, I’d be in heaven praying for someone to set the record straight.
I don’t blame Paul or God. I blame those who insist, for various reasons, on promulgating the twisting of his words.
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I think we’re going to have to agree to disagree on this one. If we remove any of Paul’s epistles, or any part of them, then it seems to me we’re going to have to remove them all. It would well and truly gut the New Testament, and eliminate a lot of very important teaching. The canon of scripture has stood the test of time. It wasn’t just a group of men; it was the long acceptance of the writings of all the New Testament books, which of course were all written after Jesus returned to heaven.
The reason Paul’s (and, I believe, the Holy Spirit’s) words have been twisted to demean and belittle women? Well, because Satan always wants to throw a monkey wrench into the works, and what better way than to perpetuate the battle of the sexes?
There is so much in the epistles to Timothy that, in my opinion, are clearly by inspiration. They have indeed stood the test of time, and blessed and edified hundreds of thousands.
I don’t mean to be a pain in the neck here. I don’t often involve myself when I disagree with something, but this one is of primary importance to me. Thanks for letting me share in the conversation.
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I certainly agree with paragraph 2. I said the same thing in my post entitled Winning the War on Women.
Thank you for taking the time to involve yourself. It is important to look at Scripture from many angles and share what God is saying to us.
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Do you believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God? If not, what parts are man and what parts are God inspired?
This has me thinking.
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Hi Kathleen, read my reply to Linda and see if it answers your question. Would love to hear what you are thinking.
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I am thinking that we must study and trust the whole counsel of the Word of God.
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Context is everything, Paul read by himself outside of the rest of Scripture is easier to twist as is any proof texting! You have to read the whole Bible to make sense of it!
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“i’m singin’ in the rain…just singin’ in the rain…what a glorious feeling, I’m happy again…”
a.g.
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