faith, Jesus, Light

Quote Me Some Jesus

Patrick Feller, Creative Commons

Patrick Feller, Creative Commons

There is a guy on a forum who wrote:

“Revelations was written to confuse believers… it appears to be written by a demonic possessed man – definitely not John the beloved.  It should have been left out of the Bible.”

A discussion ensued.  In the end he wrote, “I am sorry you all seem too weak to question your own faith.  Religion, the bible and Christianity are not perfect.  Only Christ Jesus, the Holy Spirit and God the Father are perfect.”

His last bit made me chuckle because I have written similar words, something along the lines of “If your faith is too fragile to stand up to questioning, then it is just a house of cards, not anchored in anything solid.”

So what’s the difference between me questioning whether Paul’s letters should be given the weight of Scripture and Forum Guy questioning the inclusion of Revelation?

Jesus.  Jesus is the difference.

Jesus is my litmus test:

Question/dismiss/delete any red letters?  Nope.  They are the words of Jesus.  Nothing to do with those except salute and yield.

Question writings that are corroborated by Jesus, the Law, the Prophets?  Nope.  Jesus referred those with questions to the Law and the Prophets.  So I yield to them, too.

Question writings and teachings that are not corroborated by Jesus, the Law or the Prophets?  You betcha’.

Forum guy doesn’t like Revelation because it is scary to him.  So he has devised a nice, manageable Jesus of his liking, one that is all rainbows, bunnies and peace.

The problem is, Jesus said, “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.”  Matthew 10.

And Whoa Nellie!, look what He said in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21.

How can Forum guy say that Jesus is perfect if he wants to delete some of His words?  If he believes the future is nothing but sunshine and love, then he is calling Jesus a liar when He said things like this:

 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

And this:

“If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.  At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.  See, I have told you ahead of time.”

1 Thessalonians 5:3 says, “While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.”

Perhaps that is why Jesus told us to look at the signs of the times.  Perhaps He revealed to John what must soon take place in order to give us confidence.  Confidence in Him, not in a pleasant fiction.

So, Forum Guy, quote me some Jesus if you want to persuade me.  And do it with love and respect.  Otherwise you are just noise.  Obnoxious, accusing noise.  That, and/or a false prophet.

There, I feel better.

Standard

33 thoughts on “Quote Me Some Jesus

  1. You know Forum Guy hasn’t really prayed to understand Revelation—right?. Or read any scholarly types to see if that would help him understand the glorious truth recorded by the ‘longest living apostle’ as he was given the vision from Jesus Christ—-right?
    You know he’s just spitting into the wind.
    Haters gonna hate.
    Here’s the thing about Revelation, it comes with a promise of blessing for reading, hearing, and especially keeping the things written in it. Jesus told us not to cast pearls before swine—His words not mine—and so He wrote beautiful, powerful, and enlightening truth (pearls) that only those who care about will pray & study to understand.
    Revelation can make some apathetic because they don’t see any immediate application to their own life or problems.
    It can intimidate others and they ignore it rather than make the spiritual and mental effort required to get through to understanding.
    It’s like the pomegranate of Bible books—the good stuff is there, but you gotta want it bad to do the work of getting it.
    And then there are those who get that this letter has a special place in Holy Writ.
    It is literally the last chapter of the most fascinating book ever written.
    The best seller of all Best Sellers.
    Authored by God, the most successful author of all time, and the most fascinating, wise, powerful, experienced, holy, loving, Being—inside and outside of all creation.

    Who, in their right mind, doesn’t want to read the last chapter???

    Liked by 2 people

      • There is no reason to assume that “soon” has a different meaning, if this god of yours meant to make sense and knew it was talking to humans who knew the word meant a certain thing.

        If this god cannot or will not make itself clear, how do you know what the rest of the bible means? How do you know that the rest of the words do not have some other meaning than your own? It seems that your claims of understanding come and go with what you want to claim and what you realize causes a problem with your religion.

        Like

        • Do you have children cub? When my daughter was very young, she would ask me how long before we reached our destination. My soon was not the same as her soon. So I would say “Two Barneys” because she knew roughly how long it took to watch two episodes of Barney. Soon to me equalled 40 minutes, soon to her equalled roughly two Barneys. My answer to her was not crystal clear accurate, but it was enough. Enough for her to trust that I knew where I was going and we would get there soon. Enough for her to believe in me and my love for her. My daughter and I are living in the same dimension of time and space. Jesus and I are not.
          Prophecies often have a near and far aspect to them – some of them were fulfilled in our “soon” and some of them have not yet played out here. But they’ve already played out in heaven – so from heaven’s perspective, they did happen soon. Kind of like the scene described in Revelation 5 – a scene that played out in heaven much differently than it played out on earth.

          But I’m not going to get into a long debate with you because my faith is not in the Bible, it is in Jesus. And there is no way you are going to understand Him unless He reveals Himself to you, as He did to me. And when He does, your heart will leap. And my guess is you will eventually cringe at the memory of the atheistic nonsense in which you once partook.

          Like

          • “And there is no way you are going to understand Him unless He reveals Himself to you, as He did to me.”

            I’ve been waiting for this god, especially when I was losing my faith. Funny that its never shown up, despite the promises of Christians like you.

            Like

            • The whole time you have been waiting for Him, He has been waiting for you. He is waiting for you to brush the chip off your shoulder and approach Him humbly, without demands. Go ahead and humble yourself. Your heart will leap.

              Like

                • I wasn’t telling you what to do, I was just offering a loving suggestion from one human being to another. God knows your heart, not me, but considering the accusatory tone of your replies, I kinda’ doubt that you “Did that.” But, like I said, God knows your heart, I don’t. And I sincerely hope that you and He work it out.

                  Like

                  • So, you saying ” Go ahead and humble yourself. Your heart will leap.” That is simply a lie, reluctantbaptist. Unless you wish to claim you have no idea how to use grammar.

                    You have said that this will work “Your heart will leap”, and you assumed that I have never done this. Now, you have to backpedal and claim that you never said it would work at all.

                    Hooray, now we have you trying to clam that I am lying that I have humbled myself before God. Please do present evidence, RB, for why you “kinda doubt”. It’s a shame that you have to lie about me to try to come up with a reason why your supposed “loving suggestion” fails. It isn’t loving at all to lie about someone, RB. It has ceased to surprise me that a Christian will have no problem in lying about others as long as they think it will save face. All of the cautioning about lying in their bible means nothing to them.

                    Like

                    • I kinda’ doubted it given your accusatory approach. If you were a kind, humble person you would be a kind, humble person regardless of whether or not God meets your demands. Case in point: Job. “Though He slay me, yet will I trust Him.” Since you don’t approach God’s people (me) with kindness, humility and respect then I surmise that you didn’t approach Him that way, either.

                      I asked God yesterday why He made belief so easy for me – why He revealed Himself to me in such a glorious and unmistakeable way. And why it is so difficult for you.

                      He said, “Cain and Abel.”

                      Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.”

                      Abel approached God with respect. Cain insisted upon approaching God on his own terms. Then, instead of yielding to God’s invitation to “do what is right”, he lashed out in a jealous rage and killed his brother.

                      Do what is right club and you will be accepted. Stop lashing out and your heart will leap. Hasn’t your heart ever leapt club? Mine has leapt a lot – through every stage of my daughter’s life, sometimes when I look at my husband across the room, always when I hear from God.

                      Like

                    • 1. Why should I believe you over someone else?
                      2. you certainly love to trumpet how great you are because you say that your god talks to you.
                      3. There was no difference in how Abel and Cain approached their god.

                      “Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil. 3 In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the LORD. 4 And Abel also brought an offering—fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The LORD looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast.”

                      Like

                    • 1. Why should I believe you over someone else? You shouldn’t. I simply relayed my conversation, take it or leave it.
                      2. you certainly love to trumpet how great you are because you say that your god talks to you. When did I say I was great? That sounds so much like something Cain would have said.
                      3. There was no difference in how Abel and Cain approached their god. You just pasted it yourself:

                      “Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil. 3 In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the LORD. 4 And Abel also brought an offering—fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The LORD looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast.”

                      Cain brought some of the fruits – whatever fruits he felt like bringing. Perhaps they were bruised and wormy – the discards.

                      Abel brought fat portions from the first born of his flock – in other words, the best he had. Sounds like two very different approaches to me. The NASB words Cain’s offering “the fruit of the ground”. When I go apple picking, I never fill my basket with the fruit on the ground.

                      Clearly Cain’s offering was not right, otherwise God would not have said, “If you do what is right…”

                      I deleted most of the content from your comment, as you can see, because it was full of accusations and misrepresentations. I have only entertained your rantings this long because I thought the discussion might be of benefit to others. But this blog will not give voice to the devil or his minions so unless you have a change of heart and approach, please expect that any future comments will be deleted.

                      I am sorry you had bad experiences and I am sorry that you are flailing about in anger. If you were my child, I would hold you until your temper tantrum was over. And I am not kinder than God.

                      Like

  2. Juliet Qoey says:

    I used to think questioning my faith was a sign of doubt, until I realized that the questioning was coming from the false teachings I had heard. Now I know the real meaning of our lives being hidden in Christ Jesus. It’s astonishing how many false teachings pass as “truth”…

    Like

      • Juliet Qoey says:

        So true. Like the parent who knows they are wrong and punishes the kid for it. I am Pentecostal, and I think the lack of structure, as demonstrated by Anglican or Catholic, can open gates that need not be opened. If two church leaders disagree on the way forward, one of them leaves the church and forms his own. You are then left wondering what really happened, and who was right/wrong… “Pop!” goes Pandora’s box. I wish someone could read John 17 to such guys.

        Like

Comment here and have no fear. If you regret it or change your mind, just let me know. I will be happy to delete it. (Unless it's about how brilliant I am, then it stays.)

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s